For Love or Money: Round Ten
John: Welcome to the third edition of For Love or Money in 2005 and the tenth edition overall. As we have done for almost a year now, Matt and I plan to continue to make this a monthly column where we'll talk about issues involving WWE. The first eight questions will deal with current topics while the final two questions deal with "classic" moments from the past that we feel like talking about. Think of it like a written version of Pardon the Interruption, the hit ESPN sports talk show program featuring Mike Wilbon on Tony Kornheiser. Not exactly like that, obviously, but loosely based on it.
Before we get started, just wanted to answer a question asked once in a while. People emailing us or posting in our forums have asked how come we only talk about WWE? Simple answer is I don't get TNA in Canada. I can get the PPVs, but I'm not interested in getting a PPV when I don't see the TV show. What about ROH, you ask? That's more a money issue than anything. I'm not at a point where I can be spending a ton of money on wrestling these days, so until I do reach that point this is going to be WWE only. Let's get it started.
Note: The blue (odd numbered) questions were chosen by Matt. The green (even numbered) questions were chosen by John.
1. Professional wrestling first and foremost is a business. It's the type of business where personal feelings can be sacrificed to make money. Knowing this, should WWE turn the Matt/Lita/Edge love triangle into an on-screen storyline?
Matt: I think the best storylines are stuff that reflect real life, so it would seem like a good idea. But there's one kink in all of this. On camera, Lita's married to Kane, so where does Kane fit into all of this? The only way I can think of having this work is if Lita turns heel on Kane in the Money in the Bank ladder match and joins up with Edge. Then Matt Hardy returns and forms an alliance with Kane over being scorned by Lita. Either that or Kane goes off and does his own thing, and Matt returns after a month or so to take on Edge with Lita. It would make for an awesome Bad Blood match, as there seriously is bad blood between the two. If they can find a way to work around Kane, then I say it's a go. The most interesting television has always been with real life drama behind it. See Shawn and Bret from 97 if you don't believe me.
John: I think that's a tough question. I think right now the answer is no. I think it'd be too hard because as far as most stupid WWE fans know, Lita is "married" to Kane and because of that, it'd be hard to say she slept with Edge and Matt's upset about that. Had they not done the Kane/Lita wedding then who knows. Since they have that there, I think it'd be really hard to make it into an angle. On top of all that, who knows if Matt would be willing to work with Edge or if Edge would feel safe working with a guy who is so upset with him that he could shoot on him. I could see them doing a Hardy/Edge angle based on some other storyline although I don't think it'll be soon. My guess is they move Hardy to Smackdown because I doubt he'd be too comfortable around Lita and Edge backstage at Raw.
Matt: They've barely made ANY mention of Lita and Kane being married recently, knowing WWE's pension for continuity lapses, do you think they could pull this storyline off without even involving Kane at all?
John: Ha, I don't think they are THAT stupid. I mean, it's not like they can just all of a sudden pretend like Kane and Lita aren't "married" on WWE TV. It would be among the stupidest things they could ever do. Then again, they also tried to make Kane a sympathetic babyface by having Hunter hump a mannequin, so you never know. Anyway, I think it'd be too hard to turn the Edge-Lita-Matt triangle into a storyline. And honestly, I think it's best they ignore it. That's the best thing for all of them.
Matt: That's true. I just think it would make for great television.
John: I think it would hurt Edge. If they do this and the general public picks up on this story then he's going to get the kind of bad heat that he doesn't want or need. Of course, there are some who think he deserves that, and they may have a point. I just think they should move Matt to Smackdown during the lottery, keep these people away from eachother on the road and on TV. Who knows, maybe time heals all wounds and they'll be willing to work together. I just think there are too many problems in doing it now, not even storyline ones, that will prevent it from happening.
Matt: I've wanted Matt to be on Smackdown ever since they turned his losing streak on Raw into a storyline in late 2003. Mattitude was such a hit on Smackdown, and if this is what it takes to bring him back, I'm all for it. Smackdown needs a shot in the arm like Mattitude could give. He should be a heel, though.
John: He liked it there. He only left to be with Lita. He can pick up where he left off. I guess it would be version two though, huh?
Matt: It would be good for Shannon Moore too. He needs to be a little MFer again.
2. Some people call wrestling a "sport." Where do you stand on that term? Sport or not a sport?
John: I asked this question because I absolutely hate it when people call it a sport. It happens way too much, so I'm going to use this space to say STOP CALLING IT A SPORT. A sport cannot be pre-determined. Wrestling does include athletes and you certainly have to be athletic to take part in it, but it's not a sport the same way basketball is a sport. I think the term sports entertainment fits and I like that. I just hate when people call it a sport. It pains me when they do that. I love sports. I love professional wrestling. I just like them for different reasons.
Matt: It's art form. It's performance art. It is not a sport. People who call it a sport are saying it kayfabish (more than likely an announcer or something like that). Yeah, there's competition to be the best performer on the show, to steal the show as it were. But the outcomes are predetermined. It's not sport. It's just really awesome performance art.
John: I'm sure some probably think this is a stupid question. Hey, it probably is. I just hate when I get emails or IMs from people mentioning the word "sport" in relation to WWE. Hate it with a passion. It's a hybrid. That's the best thing to call it. WWE has also called it action adventure, which is partly true. Not fully true because there's no action or adventure in anything Snitsky does. Just so I know Matt, do you think that Richards vs. Tomko match from PPV last year was "really awesome performance art?"
Matt: I'd rather watch Cats...twice...than see Richards/Tomko again. Christ. Anyway, other promotions see "sports entertainment" as a bad term. ROH announcers badmouth it all the time, and so did Paul Heyman in his quasi-shoot interview on Vince the week before Survivor Series 2001. I ask why? ECW and ROH are also sports entertainment. There's just different aspects of the show that entertain. WWE focuses on storylines as the principal source of the entertainment, and ROH focuses on the wrestling as the principal source of entertainment. But it's still entertainment. What's wrong with that?
John: Yeah, even if you are only having really good, long wrestling matches it's still not a sport. Sports aren't pre-determined, or at least they're not supposed to be. People like to label things on TV. You've got comedy, drama, news, sports and so on. Wrestling doesn't fit into one. It's on its own and that's where the confusion sets in.
Matt: And that's what I love about professional wrestling. It throws in all of these aspects from so many other genres that it can't fit into any genre but itself, and that's where I agree with you that "sports entertainment" is the right terminology for it. I share your gripe, but I'm not really as vocal about it as you are.
John: Of course now I'll get emails from people calling it a sport. This might have been a big mistake!
Matt: I get e-mails from idiots all the time. I'm used to it.
3. Who's got the best chance to win the Money in the Bank match at Wrestlemania?
Matt: The marks on WWE.com overwhelmingly think it's Kane, and it's hard to argue with those marks. I think the best chance to win is Edge. He's based his entire heel persona on his quest to become World Champion, which I think is going to happen at Summerslam. Another good bet is Benoit, but they don't seem to have any plans to have Benoit back in the title scene, which is a shame, because I think he could make for a great first contender to Batista's title reign.
John: We had this poll on the Oratory main page last week. Based on nearly 800 votes, Edge got 42% of the vote to be in first. Second was Jericho at 22%, Christian at 11%, Benjamin at 9%, Benoit at 8% and lastly Kane at 7%. I really like five of the guys in the match, and then there's Kane. I'm tired of the Kane character. Very tired. He's not a bad performer, I just dislike the character after all these years, especially as a face. I think Edge is going to win. It fits his character the best. I could see any of the guys winning, but they've pushed Edge the hardest and of the ones in this match he's the most likely to headline PPVs later in the year. Sure, you can throw Benoit, Jericho or Kane in the main event mix at anytime, but I think one of their goals for Edge this year is to climb up that ladder. This is a good way to do it, in a memorable match on the grandest stage.
Matt: Edge right now has the second-longest active winning streak at Wrestlemania at 3-0. I think they hinted at Edge trying to make a run at Taker's record a couple years ago, but having Edge miss two straight Wrestlemanias put a big stop to that. I don't really know if Edge has the longevity to make it to 12-0 like Taker did, but I think they're gonna have him win here just so if they do decide to have Edge make a run for it down the road, they'll have him at 4-0.
John: Dude, you care too much about wins and losses. Wins and losses don't mean shit! I think Angle's won like once at WM in like five tries. Rock has more losses than wins. That shit don't matter. In sports, wins and losses matter. This is not a sport. See how I can relate the questions? That's talent! Anyway, I would absolutely love it if Benjamin or Christian were to win this match. I just don't see it happening. Just when you think last year they'd book Christian stronger they resort back to the "he's still a pussy" routine. Benjamin, I think, can make a big splash in the upcoming year with the right push. This would help.
Matt: Yeeeeeeah. I don't know about Benjamin...yet. The upper card scene is so crowded right now that they barely have room for Edge. Every year there's one or two breakout stars, and I could see Benjamin making a run for the top, but not really until after Summerslam.
John: Yeah, I think Edge is winning the title at Summerslam or at least headlining that PPV. Still, they can do that without him winning this match, you know. That's all I'm saying. He's gonna get pushed regardless, right? Give it to somebody else who could really benefit from it.
Matt: Did you also notice that this is the second-straight year that the IC title isn't going to be defended (technically third since at XIX there was no IC title). In the words of my favorite jobber Hurricane, "Wussup wit dat?"
John: Do I have to tell you every month? Those belts blow.
Matt: I know the Snitsky series wasn't great, but at least Benjamin is defending the title, unlike the guy who was champion last year at this time.
John: Just look at it. The US title is on a guy who hasn't even had a PPV match in his life, or if he has I don't remember it. The IC title is on a great wrestler, but there's yet to be a great feud for him. The tag titles on Raw are non-existent. It's the same every month.
Matt: We won't get into that discussion again this month. Sorry for bringing it up, but I just wanted to point out that the second-biggest belt on Raw hasn't been defended in quite some time at Mania.
4. When Steve Austin is a guest in Piper's Pit, do you think there will be any guests that show up?
John: Bret Hart! Oh My God, he's going to be in LA that weekend! Re-enact WrestleMania 13! I will pee myself! Okay, I'm hyperventilating. No Bret Hart. Just kidding. I think Muhammad Hassan is the obvious choice, but I don't think he'll be the only one. I think The Rock will appear. I know what the rumors are, that he's not going to be there. Come on, though. It's Mania. There's always surprises, or at least there should be. If Rock is now residing in Los Angeles and if he's not too busy he can certainly stop by. I'd mark out like mad to see Austin and Rock together again. Hassan could be the heel foil, taking all the moves. It would be fun. Bring Carlito out too. He'd be good for it. I'm excited for the segment.
Matt: Yes, absolutely. Muhammad Hassan is the front runner. The guy can talk, and he gets TONS of heat. He's just not that polished of a wrestler yet, and it would be the safest way to use Hassan. And when he eats the Stunner, the LA crowd will go NUTS.
John: Everybody is saying Hassan at Mania. I'd rather see Carlito. It would be great if Long sent him out there as punishment or something. Hell, send both out there for all I care. I just think they have to get Carlito involved at WM somehow. He's going to be a star for them, I think, so you gotta use the guy somewhere on the show. What about Rock? You think he's in for a possible surprise?
Matt: I never considered Carlito because I consider Austin a Raw guy and it's a Raw-like segment. But that would be "cool." Hell, have them BOTH involved, since it really doesn't belong to any brand. Have Hassan continue his "I should be a part of Wrestlemania" thing, then have Carlito come out and talk about being disrespected on Smackdown. Hassan and Carlito could have a great two-on-two argument with Piper before subsequently getting beaten down by Austin. As for Rock? Would be cool, and I do have this sneaking suspicion he'll be there, but I think this segment could do well to elevate the younger guys.
John: There'll be no elevation. I'm sure "smart" fans will cry about Austin holding people down even when he's not even on the full roster. They'll come out, they'll eat a Stunner, maybe a Piper sleeper and then Austin will stun fat boy Piper just for the hell of it. It might elevate them to be in the ring with Austin and Piper, but I don't see it really making that big of a difference. There is a rumbling of a rumor that Austin might have a match against Hassan later in the year at a lesser PPV like Bad Blood in order to help the buyrates there. So who knows, maybe they plant that seed here.
Matt: Really? Austin wrestling again? I don't know about that. I think his XIX match against Rock was a fitting last match, and part of me wants to keep it that way. Plus, we have no idea what kind of "ring shape" Austin is in. As great as he is, I didn't really miss him that much.
John: It'll pop the buyrate huge. I'm all for it. That was his "last match" the same way Foley had his "last match" at WM2000. In other words, they can have part time matches.
Matt: I guess. And I guess Austin personifies America too. What with beating your wife and all.
John: I don't live there. You do.
5. Why the hell is Akebono on the card?
Matt: I have no fucking clue. I think it's just another product of Vince McMahon's love for big men. What a fucking insult it is to the Smackdown roster to work their asses off for the entire year trying to get a valuable spot on the Wrestlemania card, and they give it to a guy who did nothing but stand up and stare at Big Show in Japan. Do they think this is going to get them extra buys? I had never even HEARD of Akebono until WWE went to Japan. Show could have challenged Orlando Jordan for the U.S. title, or been part of a six man against the Cabinet. It would be just as stimulating to the LA crowd, it would actually be wrestling, and it would give actual WRESTLERS a spot on the Wrestlemania crowd. What a disgrace.
John: I don't know. I guess he used to be a draw in Japan, but I've read that he's since lost that drawing power for a few years now. He also looks pretty old. I think they're just doing this because it'll be a cool sight to see two really fat dudes against eachother. I expect it to be a five star match that ends with Akebono doing a 720 splash for the win. You know what I'd rather see? That skinny Japanese guy who is the world champion of hot dog eating. Now THAT is talent.
Matt: I still don't get it. I don't think the extra buys in Japan are going to be worth it. As we said before many times, the WWE in itself is a draw. I think the tour of Japan did more to increase Japanese buyrates than the appearance of Akebono. I'd much rather see Show and Booker take on the Cabinet in a handicap match. It'll get your boys The Bashams on the Mania card again, and the crowd will be just as dead for it (maybe less dead because Booker can get them riled up), and guys that actually, you know, wrestle will be able to get an elusive spot on the card. I just don't get the bookers' thinking here.
John: Like I said, it's to appeal to the Japan market. I don't see how this is going to appeal that much because from what I've read Akebono isn't a big draw in Japan anymore. How are the fans in LA going to react? It's not like there are nearfalls in a sumo match. It's just two fat guys ramming bellies. North American fans aren't into that. On the plus side, at least I can take a piss during this match.
Matt: I've said many times that I prefer top-to-bottom awesome Pay Per Views rather than PPVs with two or three good matches and stupid filler junk. I'd like to be able to watch the Mania 21 DVD and not have to skip over anything. This is going to be a definite skip over.
John: Hey, that's what DVDs are great for. Push a button and it's skipped over to the next scene. I skipped over Undertaker/Kane from WM20 plenty of times.
Matt: But you still saw the awkward interview between Ventura and Trump? I haven't watched that yet since I bought the DVD.
John: Well, there was a bunch of stuff to skip on last year's DVD. But yeah, I'm not expecting much from that much.
6. You always have hope for the cruisers, Matt. With there actually being a storyline for Chavo vs. London and the possibility that WWE will bring in Super Crazy, Psychosis and Juventud Guerrera, is there now a reason to be excited for the cruiserweight division?
John: I want to say yes. I really want to say yes. Word came out from sources before that VP of Talent John Laurinitis (Johnny Ace) was seeking out big, muscle bound wrestles for the roster. However, I think WWE is really that guys like Snitsky and Heidenreich just aren't cutting it in the ring. It's my hope that with these signings, plus the possibility of AJ Styles signing in the future, that finally they're going to realize what potentially great things they could have with these types of wrestlers. Not only could it help the cruiser division, but also the tag division. Pair a couple guys up, make them an energetic babyface tag team in the Rockers/Hardys mold and you might have something. I don't know if excited is the word, but I'll say cautiously optimistic.
Matt: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Forget about it, I've lost the optimism I've always had for the Cruiserweight Division. Unless Vince stops being in charge of storylines, Cruiserweights will never get a chance to shine. All these new guys are going to do are be fresh faces for Velocity. It's just sad. Juvi's gonna screw up also, and he'll be gone within six months.
John: I am optimistic here. If they're hiring these guys then they HAVE to realize what they could have here. Not just a cruiser division, but a tag division too. Why hire more guys that you aren't going to use, right?
Matt: They just signed a couple more, but I'm done. I'm done getting my hopes up for a division that gets completely shit on. And it's such a double standard with Vince. Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels aren't big guys, but they made for credible champions. You don't have to be big to be successful in wrestling anymore. You just have to be talented. If anything, Johnny Ace needs to be fired or demoted, because his attitude of bigger=better is so bad for business. Hell, he's probably the guy who came up with the idea for Show vs. Akebono!
John: I'm pretty sure he did, actually. He's got ties in Japan since he worked over there for years. It's not just Bret or Shawn. It's also Angle, Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, Mysterio and so on. These guys are fantastic, but they're not going to wrestle forever and once they're gone will there be any really talented wrestlers to take their place? Maybe Benjamin. I think he's a candidate. They could certainly benefit from having more in-ring workers who are talented though. I don't see how it hurts the company at all. Fans like athleticism, so give them more of that. It's not hard. What about AJ Styles? They should go after him too.
Matt: Absolutely. I totally agree with everything you're saying. I'm just saying that management is so outdated and they don't have their finger on the pulse of what's new and exciting anymore. Gene Snitsky, Heidenreich, Tyson Tomko and Luther Reigns are sadly not the future of the business, but they're being pushed as such. All I see from these new signees are more filler for Velocity.
John: I don't see how those guys you mentioned are being pushed as the future. You love wins so much, do they ever win? I don't think so. Anyway, I have hope that they'll use these guys. You don't. We'll hit on this again in a few months, I think.
Matt: Definitely. If I could have one parting shot, I think that the bookers are looking for the next Diesel when they should really be looking for the next Shawn Michaels. AJ Styles can fit that role.
7. Kurt Angle says that his neck is fine and that Wrestlemania 21 will not be his last match. Do we believe him?
Matt: Kurt had a recent interview where he said he had three years left in him, but he also doesn't have more than half strength in either of his arms. Does he really expect me to believe that? I don't. He's trying to dispel the rumors of Wrestlemania being his last match, so the outcome won't be inevitable. Everybody and their mother knew Brock was going to win at XIX because of the neck surgery Angle was supposed to have. This is a Angle's attempt at trying to swerve us, and I'm not buying it. Wrestlemania against Michaels WILL be his last match.
John: I don't know what to believe anymore. He goes on TV in Cleveland to say it's his retirement, but then he says on various interviews that he's told Vince McMahon he has more left in the tank, maybe anther two or three years. As I've written before, it's a case of wanting the guy to wrestle because he's such a good performer and wanting him to pack it in because of how hurt he seems to be. I think what he's been doing in these interviews is letting people think he's got more left because he doesn't want to be cheered at WrestleMania, which is what would happen if fans knew it was his last match as a full-time performer. I guess I don't believe him.
Matt: It's so weird. Angle's wrestling a great match against Marty Jannetty, and wrestling at House Shows too (recently he wrestled twice because of travel difficulties for other wrestlers). He isn't showing the signs he showed before the Mania XIX match against Brock that this could possibly be his last match. I kinda hope it is, because what can you really do after Shawn Michaels, you know?
John: Oh, there's plenty he can do. It's not like the roster would ever be hurt by having Angle on it. He's feuded with a ton of people, but he's shown a willingness to work with the younger guys and give them plenty of offense. He helped guys like Edge and Cena a ton when they started to get pushed. Same with Lesnar. If he can keep wrestling then great, do it. I wouldn't mind seeing him with the title again if his body is up to it. I just think all this stuff about having a couple years left is just a ploy to avoid people thinking this is it for him.
Matt: I agree. Kurt got cheered wildly at Mania XIX and it took a lot of heat away from Brock. I think Angle should cut one last promo cheap-shotting Los Angeles. Classic Angle.
John: I don't mind if he gets cheered in the match. He deserves it, and it's not like it would hurt the match. I could see him not retiring though. It's just so Angle. The guy doesn't want to give up or admit he can't go anymore. It's hard. That's a way wrestling is similar to sports. Guys hanging on too long, hurting their image sometimes. Happens in wrestling a lot.
8. Out of all the matches announced (or heavily rumored) so far, which match do you think will be match of the night?
John: I like singles matches the best, so I have to go with Angle vs. Michaels. Two of the best ever, biggest stage of them all, good build, each man can get heat by lifting up a finger and it's just all working with this feud. Of course you have to wonder how they both are physically, but I'm optimistic. It's WrestleMania. Plus, have either of them let us down before in a big match? No. You know they're getting over 20 minutes. It will rule. However, if they do Guerrero vs. Mysterio in a match that gets more than like 15 minutes then it could be that too. Even if it's face vs. face it will be awesome. Money in the Bank should be solid, but I'm not a big fan of six way matches. It'll be like TLC with two guys climbing, two guys falling down and so on. I just don't know how they'll be able to do anything that hasn't been done before, ya know? The darkhorse is London vs. Guerrero, but who knows if that is even on the 'Mania lineup at this point. It could be on Heat for all we know.
Matt: I'm going to go dark horse and say Money in the Bank. You've got six guys, all with ladder experience. And it's Edge and Christian with a ladder at Wrestlemania!!! You know what they've done in the past. We're going to see some insane spots, some insane bumps, and some awesome crowd heat with six popular uppercarders. I think it'll be a shade better than HBK/Angle and Eddie/Rey.
John: Money in the Bank should be solid. It's just that I'll always go for a one on one match over a six person match. That's the traditional fan in me. The best part of the ladder match will be when Kane hits a 450 off the ladder. Speaking of that match, I heard some WWE announcer, I think Mark Lloyd mention the ladder is "15 feet high." Um, no. It's like eight feet. There is that one big one that Jeff Hardy used, but the regular ones are like eight feet.
Matt: I just think that since the team aspect is taken away, it has the potential for some really innovative spots, like a quintuple team move on Kane off the ladder to take him out of the match or some crazy shit like that. I consider myself a wrestling purist fan, but I'll still pop like crazy for some awesome spots, especially involving a ladder.
John: Angle vs. Michaels is a legit dream match for me, so I'll love that. I think Eddie vs. Rey will absolutely rule. Those two plus Money in the Bank should all be really good. Stuff like HHH vs. Batista, Cena vs. JBL and Orton vs. Undertaker all could be solid.
Matt: I think those last three you mentioned will be great emotionally but I'm not looking for anything too exciting. Orton's match will have a hot finish, because that's how all of Orton's matches (save the Rumble match against Hunter) end up being.
John: For me, it's Angle vs. Michaels first. For you, it's the ladder match. I'll be right, of course.
9. Which single digit Wrestlemania is your favorite (ie Wrestlemanias 1-9)?
Matt: Wrestlemania 7. It was the first WWF Pay Per View I ever saw, and it's what got me hooked on wrestling. I actually liked the fact that there were so many matches, even if a few of them were squashes. We had a good IC title match (Bossman vs. Perfect) an awesome tag title match (Harts vs. Nastys), and an unbelievable career ending match (Savage vs. Warrior). And Hogan vs. Slaughter was good for what it was, and a good moment, especially since we were doing the Gulf War thing in Iraq at the time.
John: I think WrestleMania VIII is the easy choice even if I was at WMVI in Toronto. I think WrestleMania 8 had it all. A great title match that saw Savage beat Flair, a really good IC title match in Hart beating Piper, the Undertaker's memorable debut and while the Hogan vs. Sid main event blew, it was fucking awesome when Ultimate Warrior came out to save Hogan at the end of the show. That was a total surprise, which is what makes WM great. They know how to do a good surprise. After WM8 I'd probably say WM3 because of the spectacle of it all, plus two historic matches in Steamboat/Savage and Hogan/Andre followed by WM7 because I loved Warrior vs. Savage so damn much.
Matt: Sorry to burst your bubble, JC Money, but Taker's debut was at 7, not 8. At 7, he squashed the Soooperfly.
John: Fine, I'll take that out.
Matt: Dammit
John: Like I remember Taker shit.
Matt: You won't let me be right?
John: No way!
Matt: Ass
John: Better than you, Mr. Ass.
Matt: I like WrestleMania VIII too, but I still haven't gotten over the fact that we never got that Bulldog vs. Berzerker match. Wrestlemania needs some serious HUSS!
John: Dude, you remember some of the craziest shit. I don't remember that at all. Anyway, I liked WM7 for Savage/Warrior, but that's about it. The rest wasn't so great, to me. WM8 had a couple matches that I really liked, especially Flair/Savage. That ruled. As did everything Savage, really.
Matt: What I liked about WM7 is that it had serious tag team building, which wasn't really seen again until the year 2000.
John: I remember WM7 as a one match show. That's it.
10. Who do you feel are the five best performers in WM history?
John: Ah, this is tough, but a fun question. I'm going in order. Here's how I'd go:
1) Shawn Michaels - He called himself "Mr. WrestleMania" and he's right for doing so. If you look at the resume from the ladder match @ WM10, Ironman match @ WM12, Jericho match @ WM19 and last year with Benoit & HHH, he's got some of the best WM matches ever. He's first.
2) Bret Hart - Tough call for second, but I go with him. He had the most great matches with a different batch of opponents, which showed his versatility. From Owen to Shawn to Backlund to my favorite ever against Austin, Bret always showed up huge at Mania.
3) Randy Savage - Before all these other guys on this list from recent years, he's the one that stole the show. He carried Warrior to his best match ever, he got a great match out of Hogan and of course the match with Steamboat was the best WWF match of the 1980s.
4) Steve Austin - Of course he was the other half of my favorite match ever at WM13. Three Rock matches stand out, with X7 seven being the best world title match in Mania history. The moment when he beat Michaels at WM14 was outstanding and don't forget his match with Savio Vega at WM12, which was pretty decent.
5) The Rock - As mentioned, the Austin series is one of the first things you have to think about when it comes to 'Mania. The Hogan match at X8 wasn't great technically, but was one of those moments you won't soon forget.
Close but no cigar: Hulk Hogan, Triple H and Kurt Angle.
Matt: It doesn't ask for an order, which is good, because how can you order something like this? So here's my 5...out of order.
1. Shawn Michaels - Call him Mr. Wrestlemania. From Wrestlemania X onward he put on unforgettable performances. I think he'll continue that streak this year with Angle.
2. Bret Hart - No question about it. I loved his matches vs. Owen Hart, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin. All three are in the Top 10 of my 60 greatest matches of all time.
3. Steve Austin - For Bret Hart and the 3 Rock matches alone. I find the Michaels match to be very overrated, but you can't take away from the fact that it was an awesome moment.
4. Hulk Hogan - What he lacked in match quality he made up for in amazing moments. He won three of his six World Titles at Wrestlemania, just like Austin. He also put on great matches with Savage, Warrior and Rock. Even his match with Vince McMahon at XIX was better than any of us expected it to be.
5. The Rock - I had a hard time choosing between him and Randy Savage. But I looked at his match-by-match performance, and Rock had more high quality matches than Savage did. The Austin series can be thanked for that. I also liked his match with Hogan a lot. Hopefully last year wasn't the last chapter in the Rock/Wrestlemania saga.
John: I think you missed Randy Savage, man. I understand Hogan being there. I almost put him in over Rock. I just was shocked you didn't include Savage. He was always huge at Mania. Always. Never had a bad match there.
Matt: I was struggling with Savage. He had great moments, just not enough of them. You've probably blocked out his WM X stinker against Crush. If we did a top 6, Savage would be 6, no doubt about it.
John: It wasn't that bad! It was a good brawl. I almost put Angle in my top five. I think after this year he'll make it.
Matt: Angle's a sleeper pick. He very quietly puts on awesome moments, because he's almost always overshadowed by some other big match on the card. When I think of Hunter and Wrestlemania, bad things almost always turn up (save X7 and XX), so he'd have to do a LOT of Wrestlemania jobs before I consider him up there.
John: Yeah, he's had a surprisingly low number of really great WM moments. A lot of good matches, but not great ones except for last year. I think at the top we're on the same wavelength. It's Shawn first. I had a tough time in ordering second to fourth. I'm happy with my list, though.
Matt: Well my list was not in any particular order, but Shawn is definitely at the top.
QUICK HITS
Matt: Point-blank. Is The Rock going to be at Wrestlemania 21, yes or no?
John: Yes.
Matt: Yes. The announcement of Austin got the casual fans to buy, and The Rock will be the pleasant surprise of you ordering.
John: Who's walking out as champion? Only Batista, only Cena or both?
Matt: Only Cena. Batista will win at Backlash.
John: I say both.
Matt: What's Hulk Hogan's best Wrestlemania match?
John: I'd say against Savage at WM5. I was such a mark for that feud.
Matt: I'm going to go recent and say against Rock at X8. It came off better than I could ever expect it.
John: It's not better as a match. Better as a moment, but so is Andre vs. Hogan.
John: To this point, what has been your favorite WM21 movie trailer?
Matt: Basic Instinct. Christian stole the show.
John: Basic Instinct for me, but that'll probably be passed by Big Show doing Taxi Driver and Austin as Gladiator.
Matt: It's way too early to do this, but what the hell, your Wrestlemania 22 main event IS....
John: Orton vs. Cena. Orton's heel world champ heading into it.
Matt: I agree, but switch Cena with Benjamin.
John: Any chance of Trish vs. Christy being any good?
Matt: Nah. Nothing more to say to that than nah.
John: Yes, it's Trish. It'll be watchable. She's like the Angle of the Women's division. She just makes everybody better.
Matt: Not Christy. I don't have faith.
Matt: Now that Chavo is injured (cracked orbital bone), will he drop the Cruiser belt to London or keep it until he's able to wrestle again?
John: Injuries blow. I say no. He'll keep it until he can wrestle again.
Matt: I hope not. It's so damn disappointing. I really really wanted that match to happen at Mania.
Thoughts? Questions? Comments. Email us at the addresses below or feel free to talk about it with us in the column feedback section of our forums. Also, if you've got an idea for a topic that we can use please let us know and we might use it.
The next edition of For Love or Money will come to you in April dealing with the aftermath of WrestleMania 21 and maybe the draft lottery if there is one.
Visit the For Love or Money Archives. Thanks for reading.
Matt "The Love" Seagull - OratorBirdman@gmail.com
John "JC Money" C. - oratoryjohn@gmail.com
